Richard Turley: Aidan, come on! What a year you've had! You really strapped yourself to a rocket, didn’t you?
Aidan Zamiri: It’s been a year of lime green. A very cool year. I had no idea things would unfold the way they did. I don't think even Charli realized how things would play out, even though she knew she had written great music.
Richard Turley: Didn’t she? I’ve always thought of her as incredibly ambitious—she has a very clear direction and knows exactly what she wants. There’s a kind of ruthlessness about her.
Aidan Zamiri: Yeah, she’s really smart—not only incredibly creative, but also business-savvy; Her understanding of the business side is just as sharp. One of the reasons I found it so easy to work with her is that she has an honest understanding of herself. She's very aware of her own trajectory, she knows that what goes up must come down. She’s very aware of the cyclical nature of fame and the pressures that come with it, that there’s a fine line between adoration and criticism, and she’s really grounded about that. What I find interesting is that she’s able to look at herself very objectively. And I think that’s part of the reason she’s grown so much—her ambition has evolved to the point where she's almost self-managing, which is impressive
Richard Turley: Absolutely. And after her deal ended, there was a time when she didn’t have one. I remember hearing about how she could have just done it on her own... but you can't fight the system forever, right?
Aidan Zamiri: Exactly. Without a deal, you're essentially just rubbing two sticks together to make fire. But with a deal, you have a lot more resources to work with.
Richard Turley: I might be wrong but I remember that for a brief moment the perception was that she was finished after that, wasn’t it
Aidan Zamiri: Yeah, totally. People thought her career was over, especially after her album Crash. That was supposed to be her final album. She was on a five-album deal with Atlantic, which she signed when she was, what, 15? And she completed that contract, then opted out.
Richard Turley: Wow, that's crazy.
Aidan Zamiri: Yeah, it’s wild. But then she reached a point where she had the leverage to renegotiate her deal on her terms. She still wanted the major label’s resources, but she wasn’t willing to just take what they offered. She negotiated a deal where she could work more independently.
Richard Turley: An incredibly smart move.
Aidan Zamiri: Yeah, it’s really interesting. What I think is cool about Charli is that she’s able to navigate the system in a way that works for her. She’s not at the mercy of the label—she’s playing the game and using it to her advantage.
Richard Turley: What do you mean by that?
Aidan Zamiri: She’s actively involved in every decision, even though there are label people involved. When we worked on the music videos, it was very direct. Charli made the decisions herself and then got everyone else on board. It wasn’t the usual back-and-forth you get with labels, where you go through layers of people and end up with scattered feedback. With Charlie, it’s much more straightforward.
Richard Turley: That’s refreshing.
Aidan Zamiri: Yeah, and I’ve been lucky to work with a lot of independent artists who run their own operations, so the communication is more direct. But with Charli, it was on another level—she knew exactly what she wanted and was able to make it happen.
Richard Turley: Did you get the sense that one part of the negotiation was ensuring more direct contact with her collaborators? Do you think that was always part of the deal?
Aidan Zamiri: I think she’s always done that. Maybe at first it seemed like she was just in charge of everything, but really, she knows all the producers and creative collaborators. She’s always been hands-on. It feels like she’s using the system to get the support and resources she needs, but everything is still on her terms, which is really cool. It's been amazing to be part of that journey.
Richard Turley: So how did it all come about? How did you first meet?
Aidan Zamiri: Drinks. What’s funny is that I had been a fan of hers for a long time, but we first met a couple of years ago. I had worked a lot with Caroline Polachek, and they’re friends, so she made the connection. We met casually—she was a fan of my work, and I was a fan of hers. Then we did a shoot in Berlin. It could have easily turned into just another commercial shoot, but we managed to make it feel more like an editorial piece while still keeping some of the commercial elements. We just hit it off during that shoot, and a couple of months later, she texted me and said, “I want you to do one of the videos for this album campaign.”
Richard Turley: That’s awesome. What was it like when she reached out?
Aidan Zamiri: Well, she was going to do one video, the Von Dutch one, with another director, but for the second video, she wanted me. She sent me the song, 360—and I remember hearing it and thinking, “This is such an insane song.” The chorus was wild, but it had this amazing energy. We didn’t start working on the idea until January, but the cool thing was that we had a few months to sit with the song before we shot the video in March, which gave us time to really think about it.
Richard Turley: Where did the idea for all the cameos come from?
Aidan Zamiri: She’s got all these name checks in the song, so we needed to reflect that in the video. We kind of wanted it to have a campy vibe, like an old Eminem video, where he’d play characters like Britney Spears. It’s almost absurd, the way the song name-drops, so we needed to embrace that tone. We didn’t want it to be just a bunch of hot model girls. We wanted people with some substance, people who had a bit of a specific following on the internet, or lore to them. We started thinking about who would fit. As soon as word got out that Charlie was making this video, a lot of people started asking to be involved.
Richard Turley: Yeah, that makes sense.
Aidan Zamiri: At one point, Charli was like, “There’s no way we’re getting Chloe Sevigny,” and I said, “Well, but we have to! She’s like the final boss for It-girls.” We knew it would be a challenge, but we made it happen. The way it worked out was almost surreal. Charli had a friend who had a friend, and through some crazy degrees of separation, we ended up contacting Chloe. She was in LA for a Ryan Murphy project, and the one day she had off happened to coincide with our shoot. It was wild—she was in Pomona, which is pretty far from LA, but she agreed to do it. I think one of the actors she was working with on the Ryan Murphy set told her, “You have to do this, Charli is iconic” and that’s how it came together.
Richard Turley: Sometimes it really is just about timing and the right connections.
Aidan Zamiri: Yeah, it’s all about those serendipitous moments. I mean we were really surprised—Charli and Chloe didn’t know each other at all. They met on set, and it was pretty wild that Chloe agreed to do it. The cast, as it grew, started to take on this obnoxious quality with all the name-dropping. I think the prologue we shot to the video really helped set the tone, with that unserious, parodistic dialogue, it really set the tone. It wasn’t taking itself too seriously—it acknowledged its inherent absurdity. We wanted to make sure it didn’t come off as “look how cool we are.” It was important to show we knew it was a bit silly, as we mentioned.
Richard Turley: Right, and I guess that dictated the strategy moving forward, in a way. Well, maybe there wasn’t a set strategy, but I really liked the way the album was talked about afterward. The remix album, the collaborations, everything felt like a community—something that brought together a different audience each time.
Aidan Zamiri: It’s like community-building, which really worked. People can feel like they’re part of it. That’s been a huge part of the success—the collaborative element. It’s one of the biggest reasons it resonated so well: “Brat belongs to everyone.”
Richard Turley: Yeah, it’s so smart. And to be completely honest, you really have to think strategically now, especially with the way things are nowadays. Any project I’m working on now, collaboration has to be part of the plan, because you have to basically insert yourself into people's brain—make sure you’re staying visible–but doing it organically. The state of culture nowadays is that everything appears to be so accidental, but once you start to dig in a little bit, especially when working with big brands or big budgets, you realize how much we are fed stuff, actually, all the time.
Aidan Zamiri: Yeah, exactly. It’s all about being visible enough that people remember you, but not overexposing yourself. There’s a fine line.
Richard Turley: Right. And that also ties into the point you were making about Brat. It’s very wave-like, like knowing when to pull back, and when to unleash. It’s all about timing.
Aidan Zamiri: Knowing when to push and when to pull back is key.
Richard Turley: And that’s what makes someone like Charli really smart in her approach. It’s not just about being bold, but knowing when to hold back too. It’s also really interesting because, around the same time Brat was taking off, someone like Tinashe had a moment too. She had this massive single in the summer, but it was much more of a compact version of Brat—maybe three weeks of buzz, while Brat lasted a bit longer, three months or so. It shows how quickly things can shift.
Aidan Zamiri: Exactly, it’s like you go from everything to nothing in the blink of an eye.
Richard Turley: It’s the next punch, you have to keep moving on to the next thing –It’s such a quick turn– And it’s hard to let go of what you created. But you can’t stand still and just watch what you’ve built fade. You’ve gotta keep moving and keep a certain detachment from your creations. Artists, we are sensitive souls, it’s not easy to do it. But Charli, she’s different. She’s tough, and you can only develop that level of resilience after 15 years in the fucking music business.
Aidan Zamiri: Yeah, exactly. A big part of success is being able to ride through the ups and downs and figure out how to sustain it. For me, when things started getting bigger, I became more aware of the attention, both positive and negative. Before, I was in this specific niche audience, and everyone who saw it probably understood what I was doing. But as things grew, I started noticing more negativity. At first, I understood that more eyes on it meant more scrutiny, but it was tough to navigate. It felt personal, and everything started to feel a bit overwhelming.
Richard Turley: Right, and how did you deal with that?
Aidan Zamiri: Well, I remember talking to Charli about it, and she said, "Yeah, it’s just part of the process." She told me, "You just have to accept it and move on." I think she really does understand it—she gets upset, but she knows it’s about moving past it. If you don’t get any hate, it means no one cares. If you’re getting hate, it means you’re doing something right.
Richard Turley: Exactly. It’s a necessary part of the process. And, of course, with social media, everything is sort of designed to amplify negativity. It’s just the way it works now.
Aidan Zamiri: Yeah, absolutely.